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Post by BiteUrLip on Jul 12, 2021 16:49:22 GMT
Okay, recently this has really bothered me. When I was studying first time to produce music, all the instruments were recorded separately.
But I ask, has Elton and many others, during the old times, always recorded all instruments at once? Like in many Syd Barrett's recordings, there are "take 1" etc. onwards, so it sounds like they recorded all at once. Elton was supposedly doing the same at least with The Captain And The Kid - in "In The Noah's Ark", his dog Arthur was caught barking in the correct rhythm, and one could even hear the band members - including Elton - laughing at that occasion.
So, what is the truth about Elton's recording method? Has he always recorded all the instruments at the same time, or has he sometimes done it differently?
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Post by dougs on Jul 12, 2021 17:53:03 GMT
BiteUrLip: There are people out there who can give precise information on your question but I have read a fair amount about how certain EJ albums were recorded and my understanding was that during the 1972-1976 era, the basic tracks were recorded together; Nigel on drums, Dee on bass, and Davey on guitar with Elton on piano (same with Kenny, Caleb, Roger, James, etc.). I am not sure if Ray Cooper's parts were added later. An interesting story about "Saturday Night's Alright (For Fighting)" was that EJ wasn't happy with his piano in the basic mix and had Nigel, Dee, and Davey play together without his accompaniment; EJ would later overdub his piano in and Davey would add countless guitar parts. I have heard each Davey guitar part separately and it was a real TREAT to hear each overdub part for that song. When you listen to those late 60s and very early 70s classic Motown songs, they were recorded on either 4 or 8 track studio equipment; 4 tracks! The Funk Brothers ruled! One track was for piano, bass, guitar, drums, a 2nd track for backing vocals, a 3rd track for horns & strings and a 4th track for everything else. Vocals were there somewhere. EJ's early albums were recorded on 4, 8, and 16 track recording equipment. It was usual for EJ and the band to lay down their 4 instruments playing together and usually it was, amazingly, the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd take that would make the album! The songs were usually recorded like this on the same day that they actually wrote the song. Nigel, Dee, and Davey would later record their backing vocals as a unit on 3 different mics with different settings. Magic stuff. As time progressed into the 80s it became the norm for each instrument to be laid down separately - one instrument at a time; no chemistry of playing together and feeding off of one another. That chemistry actually made the tempo of "Saturday Night's Alright (For Fighting)" increase as the song progressed. Yep, as the trio played that song without EJ, Elton was jumping up & down yelling at them to go for it...they actually played faster & faster! Maybe not "technically" perfect but it was "emotionally" perfect! Eventually most music got to the point that only loops or segments were recorded and then simply digitally copied over & over again to complete the song. Eek. No subtle differences. Mechanical for certain which may be fine for certain genres of music... The person who does the "I Guess That's Why They Call It The Elton John Podcast" would certainly know in detail how EJ's albums were recorded. His podcasts are topnotch. Here is the link to his Elton podcast page. His name is Neil: eltonpodcast.podbean.com/Yes, I did read as well that EJ in the past 20 years tried going back at times to more "organic" approaches to recording similar to the early days - such as playing the basic tracks together at once...as they apparently did on "Just Like Noah's Ark." I hope this helps a bit. Doug
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Post by dougs on Jul 18, 2021 1:00:03 GMT
BiteUrLip:
I do recall another recording story. It was about the recording of "We All Fall in Love Sometimes" and "Curtains" from CAPTAIN FANTASTIC AND THE BROWN DIRT COWBOY. Elton, Nigel, Dee, and Davey (not certain if Ray was adding his parts at this point) were recording the two songs together at Caribou Studios in 1974 and had to be able to do it in one take covering 11 minutes! A big or noticeable mistake means - do it all over again. Those two songs form a real EJ masterpiece. Nigel had to be on his game big-time; he added every conceivable Nigel Olsson fill on "Curtains."
Pretty incredible to imagine doing the basic tracks playing together over 11 minutes with pinpoint precision and emotion. That band could do it!
Another incredible story is how Jethro Tull recorded THICK AS A BRICK - one long song divided over two sides of vinyl - playing together the basic instruments for a side of music.
Doug
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Post by BiteUrLip on Jul 26, 2021 23:47:54 GMT
Thanks for your information, Doug! I have myself done all the instruments separately, which makes it easier to fix one of them if something is wrong.
Is it because of the studio machines didn't allow putting all the tracks together separately, that they had to record all at once?
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Post by dougs on Jul 26, 2021 23:59:57 GMT
BiteUrLip:
Recording in the late 60s & early 70s in 4-track studios, for example, meant that you could essentially combine 4 separate recordings together onto one song. Each track was a a separate recording. It was up to the producer and sometimes the musicians to decide what appeared on each available track. Vocals often took one track. Backing vocals were often on their own track. Strings and or horns would likely get their track which left one track remaining which then meant that the piano, bass, drums, and guitars were recorded onto the last track. This is how, for example, so many of those incredible Motown classics were recorded in Detroit. In fact, many Motown hits were recorded on 3-track devices! Technology improved/changed in the early 70s and studios were quickly up to 8-track capabilities which must have been a delight to record producers. Early Elton albums were recorded like this. As the years went by in the 70s the studios became 16-track and then 24-track and so on giving so many options to record instruments separately but also losing that organic chemistry of having a tight band playing with one another.
Most of the classic Rolling Stones and Beatles albums were recorded using 4-track technology. The Lovin' Spoonful recorded using 16-track technology as early as 1967 but the recording machines were expensive to buy, maintain, and so on. 16-track machines gained popularity later when they were more affordable and dependable.
Pros and cons for all technologies...
Doug
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Post by rocketman on Jul 31, 2021 17:50:43 GMT
Empty Sky was recorded on 4 track equipment, and for the Elton John album, according to Elton, much of the recording was done "live", which I take to mean the orchestral parts too, but I'd have to research that.
Old '67 was recorded live, according to Elton, as Noah's Ark was. The entire album was meant to have a 'live' feel to it. Personally, it's one of my least-favorite albums in terms of sound quality. I just don't think Matt Still was one of Elton's better producers, though it's better than Peachtree Road, Elton's only (thankfully) solo production effort.
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