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Post by rocketman on Apr 17, 2018 15:00:08 GMT
Yesterday's USA Today carried an article, linked below, listing some past songs and the reasons why they would be controversial today. One of the songs they included was Island Girl. Others were Money For Nothing By Dire Straits, Under My Thumb and Brown Sugar by The Rolling Stones, He Hit Me (It Felt Like A Kiss) by The Crystals and Kissin' Cousins by Elvis. If some the songs aren't downright objectionable, the article contends that they were at least naïve, and even though some were well-intentioned, they could be considered offensive nonetheless.
In light of this article, my question is:
Which Elton John songs do you think might be considered naïve or even objectionable by today's standards?
USA Today |
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Post by BiteUrLip on Apr 17, 2018 17:21:17 GMT
"If There's A God In Heaven (What's He Waiting For?)" and "Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher".  |
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Post by crazywater on Apr 17, 2018 17:50:31 GMT
"If There's A God In Heaven (What's He Waiting For?)" and "Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher".  Why is Island Girl inappropriate? |
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Post by rocketman on Apr 17, 2018 18:02:56 GMT
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Post by rocketman on Apr 17, 2018 18:04:47 GMT
Crazywater, here is their comment on Island Girl:
Song: Island Girl by Elton John, 1975
Choice lyric: “Island girl, what you wanting with the white man's world / Island girl, black boy want you in his island world”
Why it wouldn't fly today: The borderline fetishization in John’s chart-topping ode to a New York City prostitute who’s “black as coal but she burn like a fire” is cringeworthy.
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Post by rocketman on Apr 17, 2018 18:10:23 GMT
I'll note by the way that I never personally found Island Girl to be objectionable. But I've read reviews (at Wilson & Alroy, for example) that deem the song inappropriate.
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Post by rocketman on Apr 17, 2018 18:19:31 GMT
Here's my list, and I will note that while I listen to these songs without any real objections, I can see how other people might cringe when they hear the lyrics:
Dirty Little Girl - "grab that bitch by the ears" and other seemingly misogynistic lyrics.
Angeline - "let me use you like a sex machine" and again, other seemingly misogynistic lyrics, painting the picture of this woman existing for her man's pleasure.
Poor Cow - the Cow is a pregnant woman, apparently.
Ticking - words like "Negro waiter" contrasted with "male Caucasian" would raise eyebrows today, especially the word "Negro".
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Post by crazywater on Apr 18, 2018 14:32:36 GMT
I never found any those examples objectionable and still don't. It's this "outrage of the day" attitude that drives me crazy.
As far as Poor Cow goes, the song is more of a slap at the "Poor Cow's" POS husband. And I believe Poor Cow refers to a woman who has made bad choices in her life which kinda fits the song as well, not that she is pregnant.
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Post by rocketman on Apr 18, 2018 23:52:18 GMT
I never found any those examples objectionable and still don't. It's this "outrage of the day" attitude that drives me crazy. As far as Poor Cow goes, the song is more of a slap at the "Poor Cow's" POS husband. And I believe Poor Cow refers to a woman who has made bad choices in her life which kinda fits the song as well, not that she is pregnant. Again, I have no issues with the songs, except perhaps for Angeline, probably because it's just not a very good song. I do think that some people would have issues with some of the songs. People are more sensitive to things than they used to be, but I don't think it's a case of outrage but more of a tendency toward political correctness, which can be overbearing at times. If you read the article, you'd see some examples which probably do cross a line, while others might not. For example, the lyric to Money For Nothing includes the reference to an effeminate rock star as a "little faggot", a term which is cut from the radio versions of the song for obvious reasons. On the other hand, I would be hard-pressed to find the use of Chinese names in Kung Fu Fighting to be a real issue. Also, if you read the lyrics, Poor Cow is clearly referring to a pregnant woman: "There's another one due in three months time/She'll have to paint the spare room blue". But yeah, the song is primarily about her husband, who beats her "You see your whole life coming at you/In the back of his hand". |
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Post by Commodore Orpington on Jun 26, 2018 7:06:09 GMT
It's scary how oblivious people are on these issues now. The writers of these songs were EXACTLY as conscious of race problems and issues as anyone now. They were writing in a rough way that they hoped would present life more realistically, in a lot of cases.
Does anyone think that when the Stones wrote a song about a slave owner having sex with a slave, that they thought it was "okay"? Did they need PC people to come along and teach them that, tsk tsk, oh no, the song had racial and sexual problems? They wrote it because it WASN'T okay.
Racial epithets just didn't fly in the 70s. Yet we get "gook" and other terms in "Ticking". Sometimes to write about REAL harsh life, you have to show the underbelly of society.
PC types teaching us the lyrics are "inappropriate" totally miss the point of art. These songwriters trusted us to have a certain intelligence level, where we would know the writers weren't being racist, themselves, but had a different intent in mind.
The 1970s had the smartest, most decent overall take on race and gender issues, when you found the right writers to listen to anyway. Bernie got dangerously close to the line sometimes, but was (is) one of the good guys, we know that, so we trust him. Even the Rolling Stones are just putting us on with all the implied evil in their songs. That's part of rock and roll, appearing "bad", when you're really not the psychotic your songs make you sound like (except Nugent!)
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Post by rocketman on Jul 14, 2018 18:44:34 GMT
Very well, put, Commodore. I think you're spot-on; that writers were trying to show us something, not convince us to accept or be that way, but mostly to present it so that we would ponder it and perhaps learn from it.
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Post by newloneranger on Jul 15, 2018 6:18:14 GMT
Poor Cow
Poor cow
You’ll get your dumb man
You’ll see your whole life comin’ at you
In the back of his hand.
Poor cow
It’s a monkey see town
You’ll walk down the aisle
In the hand me down gown
Of some poor cow.
This lyric refers to the womans former could have been mother in law. She'll walk down the aisle in the wedding gown of the mother inlaw. Dumb man refers to her ex abusive boyfriend. Frank refers to the guy she married.
This album was to distance the heartbreaker from the woman he fell in love with, because she married another. It doesn't really mean that the heartbreaker really feels this way, It was just getting his frustrations out.
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Post by Suit of Wolves on Aug 25, 2018 7:59:13 GMT
Texas Love Song
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Post by Commodore Orpington on Aug 28, 2018 8:38:24 GMT
Songs used to be written to provoke, like Texan Love Song, rather than to be "appropriate". If it provokes listeners more today, because people don't say things like this in songs anymore, then that's good.
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Post by rocketman on Aug 28, 2018 14:57:04 GMT
Problem is, a lot of people don't see the difference between intentional provocation and espousing beliefs in a song. Texan Love Song is supposed to be written from the point of view of some Texan Rednecks; people should take it that way - it's not a viewpoint owned by Bernie or Elton. It was a very daring song. Funny thing is, it's probably more timely now than it was back in the 1970's, especially with immigration and white supremacy being such a hot-button issues. I wonder what the reaction would be if it was on a current release.
So yes, I think it would be considered inappropriate, though again, it really isn't when we understand the purpose of the song.
Again, I want to highlight the fact that when I posted this thread, it did not mean that *I* found the songs inappropriate. In fact, I've barely given thought to any of the songs listed in that article, and I personally never saw a problem with Island Girl or Poor Cow.
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